A good rule of thumb is this; there are MORE differences between Woman A and Woman B and Man A and Man B than between All Women and All Men (so sayeth SCIENCE). This is true of height, weight, how well-cooked you think your steak should be, etc. etc. etc.

So being a Good Man or Good Woman is really just being a Good Person. Yes? That is plenty, plenty hard enough to teach a kid about. Don’t manipulate your partner, don’t steal from their bank account, don’t cheat on ‘em, do tell them you love them. Do be there when they need you. Stand up for them. Take care of them. None of that is gender specific. If your son can manage all that, you’ll have done an excellent job.

What is “manly”–courage? Women have courage. What is “womanly”–caretaking? Men can be excellent caretakers. It’s not so much about being a good liberal, it’s that these categories just aren’t useful.

You and Maja know yourselves, you have fought hard to be the persons that you are. That wisdom is miles more important than whatever your parents told you or didn’t.

As far as female expectations… there IS no course i can give him. I can explain what a great friend the clitoris is, but then he’s going to run across girl who don’t like having their clitoris stimulated. (My first major sexual relationship was with a girl who fit this description). Still, what can you do? You give some good advice and let them work out the rest on their own.

I know you’re not telling me how to raise my kid. I figure you’re replying to issues that are of importance to you too.

“Incidentally, at no point in any of these discussions should you make the assumption that I [THINK I] know better about raising your kid than you do.”

Obviously you wouldn’t make the assumption implied in the uncorrected sentence. Else you’d be a spineless goon.

Of COURSE this conversation doesn’t take place in a vacuum. The soul-sucking forces of assimilation and in-group/out-group will have their way with your boy, as they have with all of us. What I’m saying is that even in the midst of all that, they still observe your behavior and take lessons from it, whether they are even aware of doing so or not.

And yes, I am providing a male role model to my son. But hopefully, what I am showing him is that the difference between “masculine” and “feminine” properties is not quite so black & white as our society dictates. Time will tell if that gets through the noise.

My example of women looking to smack men around was merely one permutation of a larger idea, which is that different women want different things, as do different men. This goes back to the supposed immutability of masculine and feminine gender roles and desires. When teenagers begin seeking partners, they are told all these tales by friends & adults about what their targets want. In my case, I was able to ignore much of this bad information because I had a mother who contradicted many female stereotypes. I believe it resulted in me avoiding many masculine stereotypes that grow out of perceptions about women. Just my opinion and my experience.

There are certainly differences in our approaches when it comes to what is vs. what could be. For instance, you say that you didn’t begin to explore the masculine side of your personality until your late 20s. I can’t fathom what that even means. What items in your personality are specifically “masculine?” I’m left to fill in blanks, and I can only assume that those blanks are fraught with male/female dichotomies which may or may not stand up under scrutiny. More specifics plz, kthx, lest you unleash the Rant Monster. Wait, too late.

And no, I don’t in the slightest expect you to make with the camoflauge diapers, NASCAR blankets, & DVD reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond. Just shining a light in the cave of doubt, which I know from experience can contain some scary shit.

Incidentally, at no point in any of these discussions should you make the assumption that I know better about raising your kid than you do. He will have his own personality and environment which will give you challenges I do not face, and vice versa. I respond with advice only when asked, as above, and try to limit it to the subject at hand. Obviously there will be differences of opinion, but hey, ask an opinionated bastard a question, and ye shall receive…

2. I don’t think a good male role model is a fixed concept. i think your son gets in from you based on everyday little details. But there IS such a thing as a male role model. You’re being one every day with your son whether you think about it or not.

3. I thought about the woman thing while writing this. there are women who are looking to be degraded and other who are looking to dominate. It is a seperate discussion from the light hearted one here, but first and foremost i would hope he doesn’t get too wrapped up in someone’s serious games and pathologies. If he is first and foremost a decent, kind, and confident man, than the fact that that won’t help him get with someone “trolling for losers to smack around” or looking to BE smacked around, is a BIG bonus.

4. Gender roles… listen. When have i ever been Mr. Gender Role stereotype? Do you think i will start now? However, we are having a discussion with a boy about chicks. There are generalities that exist, dude. We don’t live in a world where there is no gender. We laugh at some of those “women are like this, men are like this” because we recognize truths to them

Some “truths” are simply the product of social conditioning and there is ALWAYS an exception to every “rule”. I assume you have been getting this across to your kid for a long time before the “how to nookie” conversation comes up. But you seem to want to not acknowledge the existance of gender at all. Or to pretend that it’s ONLY societal.

Basically, this conversation does not exist in a vacuum.

And as for how to be “Manly”…. there are traits as adults we need to know and which it helps if a parent can teach us. Like inner strength, how to stand up for yourself and what you think is right, how to deal with fear. A son will need to know these so he can grow into a Man. A girl will need to know the SAME THINGS so she can grow up into a Woman. I think you’re reading too much into this “Manly” thing. I think you’re removing me personally from the picture, and reading this as some generic lecture from a football watching, roof fixin’ Father stereotype.

And what “father figure front”? Uhm… Matthew… you DO get, this post is supposed to make you laugh, right? It contains some more serious viewpoints that i’m exploring as i write them, but this isn’t at ALL how it will ever go down. This is just a me being speculatively funny.

Although, i will give a point for hearing about his old man’s exploits. Perhaps you are right on this one. I’ll have to come up with a new method. Maybe the lecture: “How to Pummel Your B**** Like A Jackhammer Unless You’re Some Kind Of Pus** Fag”.

- That your son will be heterosexual

- That a “good male role model” is a fixed concept

- That “women” want certain unvarying things (many’s the woman I’ve met trolling for losers to smack around, etc.)

- That gender roles need to be observed in the first place

Obviously I’ve betrayed my biases against the established system of gender, at least in my country. But analyzing your assumptions and where they arose is a good way to keep an accurate track of what signals you as a parent are giving to your son.

Take my word for this: When your son leaves the fog of infancy and becomes a toddler, he will imitate you mercilessly. Every mannerism, every quirky behavior that you never noticed about yourself, will be shown to you as if in a small, squashed-up mirror. You may have your lesson plan down pat, but your child will be learning even while you are unaware that you are teaching.

Thus, my advice to you is to be yourself. You have gained the friends you have and the partner you married by being yourself. The kid could learn far worse. If you put up a father figure front, a kid will see right through it. Whether the guard is up or down, they are watching you and taking notes. Learn from your own statement: Confidence is key. If the child knows that you are confident in being yourself, he will feel more comfortable doing the same.

I don’t have unbridled admiration for my old man, to be sure. But I appreciate that he never concerned himself with machismo or the idea that a man and woman had a particular role (for the most part). Of the insecurities I have felt in my life, the idea that I was not “manly” enough was never a consideration. And one less neurosis heading into the horror of adolescence is a blessing beyond words.

Oh, and talking about your sexual exploits with your son: Eww, eww, double eww. Of all the thoughts a kid wants in his brain, a picture of his old man getting it on is NOT one of them. Best to keep it third-person, methinks.