The Bodacious Belgrade Blog

September 26, 2008

9/11 Conspiracy

Filed under: Uncategorized — bunitingi @ 10:20 pm
Tags: , , , , ,

Any event of significance that occurs will have an equal and opposite conspiracy theory to account for it.

Heck, half the time, they might even be true. Heck, half the time an event that has no significance might have a conspiracy behind it that would blow your mind.

I don’t even rule out aliens.

But one thing i don’t buy, at all, are any of these 9/11 conspiracy movies i’ve seen floating about the net, drumming up devotees. In particular Loose Change and Zeitgeist. I don’t get it.

In the States i met a few people here and there who would mention these, but mostly foreigners would bring it up. And now that i’m over here, a foreigner myself, these films get brought up in a lot of discussions i have.

So. Let me make my case.

Everyone who tells me they’re really into these films and believe what they say assumes that my absolute dismissal of them stems primarily from the fact that as an American i can’t imagine my government doing anything so dirty handed, and this of course, is why i naively refuse to salute these movies.

Which is funny because i actually think my government is more dirty and underhanded, and definitely more incompetent than the folks i’m arguing against. I come on, you can accuse me of a lot of thing, but believing in politicians’ honesty, sincerity, and competence? You’ve got to be kidding me. I grew UP during Iran/Contra, i was learning to poop by myself during watergate, Abramowitz anybody? Hey, remember when republicans didn’t like gay people? Okay they still don’t, but Lord knows that doesn’t stop half of them from being gay anyway. (Come one guys, if you really want to order a penis sandwich, hell, just order it. You’ll feel so much better afterwards. Or maybe it’ll just feed your binge purge cycle. Watched my own dad go through that. Not pretty.)

Usually the main fallacy of their worldview, is they have this imagine of America’s superhuman abilities, and more to the point, the Bush administration’s inCREDIBLE genius, and i mean genius and competence beyond anything the world has seen since the Elders of Zion masterminded the entire 20th century.

All you have to do is explain this to me and i will rethink my entire attitude:

So, the Bush administration, within 8 months of coming into power, managed to organize and pull off the most elaborate conspiracy ever attempted. It requires not only Einstein level genius to plan, but needs executed with a precision the most renowned military black ops on their best day couldn’t pull off. (i actually know a few ex black ops. Ask them about military competence. Seriously. Go ahead.)

On TOP of which, the conspiracy requires a WHOOOOOOOOLE lot of people to be in on SOME part of it. And NOOOOOO one, in all the bush scandal books, and in all the ratting out of the bush administration, has EVER come forward. ‘Cause there would be a LOT of inside people.

AND, you’re telling me that this was pulled off by the BUSH administration? HAVE YOU NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO US POLITICS FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS?

You mean the folks who could pull off 9/11 couldn’t have Iraq wrapped up in a bow by now? You mean they can pull of the 9/11 conspiracy  and yet fumble the Iraq war AT EVERY TURN. (and the fumbling began at the beginning. Hurricane Katrina is a walk in the PARK for geniuses of that magnitude. Where WERE they? ‘Cause, uh, ya’ll might not have been watching, but, uhm, that little Katrina thing didn’t go so well.

Housing bubble? Economic meltdown? Any. event. in. the. past. 8. years? My point: you are trying to convince me that a regime who has CLEARLY and COMPLETELY demonstrated INCOMPETENCE for EIGHT SOLID YEARS, pulled off the greatest world conspiracy ever seen within their FIRST 8 MONTHS?!

Girlfriend, puh-leez.

So why i am still having these discussion?

‘Cause people LUV a good conspiracy. Peopl love to know they’ve got the secret dibs on what’s going on. No one foolin’ them…

LOOSE CHANGE

So first we have Loose Change. It’s an hour 20 minutes and i know few of you are actually going to sit here now and watch it, but you can jump around, and it makes a good comparison for the debunk video that follows:

There is a version of the film with point by point refutations here (which also wins points by making me laugh occasionally):

And if you REALLY want to dork out, here’s 2 good sites:

This is a blog which compiles numerous sources debunking the film,

and This is a site by 9/11 conspiracists debunking Loose Change. They have a pretty good attitude towards what Dan Avery, the filmmaker of Loose Change was trying to achieve and debunk it, in their words in order to:

     

  • To help separate substantial claims about the attack from ones without merit
  • To provide additional resources for readers to explore issues raised by the film
  • To help the producers of Loose Change to make better future versions of their film
  •  

ZEITGEIST

My personal favorite. It’s newer and has been sweeping the nets over the past 2 years. I especially like it because it is not content to simply delve into 9/11. Oh no, it also attempts to debunk Christianity and point out the secret Cabal of bankers who control everything. I don’t care about the bankers so much, but i LOVE a debate about religion. Heck, i have dozens of books covering Christian history and alternate histories (meaning all those early Christian sects that were eventually suppressed) down to little minutia, plus theology, deconstructions of the Bible, etc. I LOVE this topic!

So while i would describe myself as a Christian, for various reasons, i’m all up for a good debunking, as there are many commonly held misconceptions. And, since i believe that American Evangelists do far more harm for people’s spirituality than good, i’m almost always up for throwing out a few good pot boiling zingers.

(My personal favorite: The story of the Israelites escape from Egypt and subsequent conquest of Canaan. How’d they conquer Canaan? Did the walls of Jericho really come down? What were the preexisting cultures there like? Well, several different and unrelated archaeological teams have been digging Israel since the 60s and 70s looking for these answers. And overwhelmingly they have all found the same data.

None.

No seriously, none. There’s no evidence of any sort of conquests anywhere around this time. The Bible has descriptions of HUGE amounts of killing, cities being wiped, inhabitants being slaughtered. But there’s nothing there. What archaeologists are finding are settlements that pretty much went about their business. It seems Egypt had part of Canaan as its territory until around 1300 BC when it withdrew and decreased its borders although no major battles are mentioned. Then around 1200 we definitively can placer some Jews in Canaan. Buy no Jews in Egypt. No conquest of Canaan. For now you can look it up if you wish. I may blog about it at a later date and cite sources and whatnot. But for now, we have other fish to fry. and by the way, as a religious man, no this doesn’t bother me in the least. if you can’t understand why, read some Joseph Campbell or Carl Jung.)

So, Zeitgeist. Whacha got? (i’m mostly interested in the first 3rd, although all the 9/11 stuff is in the 2nd part)

Hmm. Okay…. uhm…. boy, sure sounds pretty… smackin’ its boot upside the head of religion. Except.. uhm, wow, almost every fact presented is wrong. And i’m not going to even mention that no one has ever ACTUALLY proposed that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th

The myths, though. Almost all are wrong/ are wrong.

Oh, Horus! Wow, there was NOTHING accurate about their take on the Horus myth. He was god of the sky, Ra was the sun god. Horus was DEFINITELY not born of a virgin. Isis brought her brother Osiris back to life and SHTOOPED him to create Horus. And the rest of the crap about Horus doesn’t exist in any Egyptian myth about Horus.

Anyway, almost ALL the Mithra stuff is TOTALLY WRONG! Seriously. Look it up. Mithra didn’t die and resurrects at ALL. No virgin mother, no 12 disciples, no death and resurrection, NOTHING. What is he talking about?

Furthermore, aside from Corn King/Solstice types: death in winter, rebirth in spring every year like clockwork, there are NO myths predating 150 AD that feature gods dying and becoming resurrected, except for potentially Osiris. He gets chopped up into 14 pieces by his brother and scattered all over the world. His sister, Isis, recollects his dismemebred corpse, and then, and i shit you not on this one, shtoops him with a dildo to bring him back to life. At which point he doesn’t even come fully back to life, but roams the underworld forever afterwards.

Surely you’re not telling me that a bunch of Jewish peasants in 0 AD pulled out the Osiris myth and used it as inspiration to invent Jesus? Bloody hell…that’s like using the Saw films as inspiration for Foster’s Home For Imaginary Friends.

The more probable source he’s looking for would be the Corn king archetype. Dies in the winter. Rebirth in the spring. This one could be gone into in more depth. Dionysius (or Bacchus) has this trait and i think he’s mentioned. Tammuz, the Babylonian god died in the winter and came back in the spring, but i don’t think he was mentioned.

Attis wasn’t born to a virgin, crucified, dead for 3 days, and then resurrected, although he did have a bit of a death rebrith thing: he killed himself by ripping his own nuts off and died. He eventually came back as a tree. He did, later on in his history come back every spring, but he only did this AFTER 150 AD.

I think had the filmmaker stuck to this aspect of mythology he could have made some interesting points. However, by bullshitting completely and utterly, he loses me without spending time on the one trait that has some merit to be examined. I don’t think the Christ resurrection is the same thing as the solstice rebirth, but i think ther ARE connections to be made. So why not do it?

In fact… wait, isn’t this ENTIRE first part lifted from somewhere? I know i’v e heard something like this…wait, isn’t this verbatim the argument from that book the Christ Conspiracy by Archarya S? Let me look in those credits… ah, there it is. Yup. Listed as a source. I remember that book. So, the filmmakers lifted their argument from there. Damn. It’s a shame they had to choose a crappy, non scholarly work of hyperbole. Don’t believe me? Here’s her site. You can decide for yourself. Hell on her work of advanced scholarship this is her credentials:

“About the author: Acharya S is an archaeologist, historian, mythologist and linguist. This is her first book.”

This is a scholarly work? Man, there are other better sources if you want to question Christianity, it’s just you won’t find such dramatic sweeping claims “that will BLOW your mind!”, which is i think the main idea. The people and sites who defend the books in the film’s bibliography these are the same type of people with the same type of arguments as insistent American Evangelicals. No, seriously. The sides claim to be total opposites, but both latch onto whatever unanalytical hyperbole they can find to keep spitting feverishly in the wind.

God’s Son= God’s Sun? Uh…. what does English wordplay have to do with ancient aramaic, roman, or greek? The pisces stuff was kind of cool. The december 25th stuff is so pointlessly stupid, it’s just annoying.

Okay, you don’t need me personally to do a point for point. There are other people for that. But i liked Zeigeist’s presentation from a watchable, incendiary point of veiw, even if it was complete crap.

I really, really want to put up a good video debunking zeitgeist. There are many videos that do it, but most of them are either crap or really boring.

For a good, thorough online debunking, go HERE

I’ll throw up a movie anyway, but it is boring. Granted you may just be watching a minute here a minute there of all this stuff, so you may not care, as you just want to tune in for a minute or 2. The only good material against Zeitgeist is all in writing. Most of the people who bothered to make an actual video, are clearly religious and their agenda causes them to make conclusions, logical fallacies and insinuations that i can’t get behind. (A lot of the material the movie plunders from Acharya S, she in turn plunders from a guy named Massey, back in the 1800s. He was a druid. Aspersions are cast on him because of his Druidom, which is idiotic. Blavatsky gets mentioned in one video. Why i’m not sure. I’m quite familiar with her and don’t see the connection with Zeitgeist. What? Hitler liked some of her work? Uh, RELEvance?! And it kills any chance of my watching your piece of shit bedunking of a piece of shit film.)

Thus, i am left with the boring:

There are 8 parts in all, and you can just click on the video to go to you tube and watch the rest. But listening to that guy drone on and on is sleep inducing, and i’d rather just go and read a transcript.

Well, wasn’t that fun!

But see, now i can point someone to this post the enxt time i find myself in yet ANOTHer discussion about these 2 films.

I want some new conspriacy theories. Like about America’s financial meltdown! It’s the Jews, isn’t it? it’s always them damn Jews. Being all Jewy and stuff. So can i get a good conspiracy about the meltdown with little or no Jewishness? I mean, i understand if you just have to throw a few in, okay. But CAN i get a good america financial meltdown conspiracy theory ? Whatever happened to the Freemasons? Ascended Masters? Come on, folks…

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6 Comments »

  1. My favorite Jewy bit is when, shortly after 9/11, the theory began circulating that Jews had been informed not to go to the World Trade Center that day because something bad was going to happen. Al Franken, quite the Jewy Jew, said, “Oh yeah, I got the memo. Obviously.”

    I also appreciate Sarah Silverman’s new project, The Great Schlep, in which she encourages young Jews to persuade their Florida retiree relatives to vote Obama:

    http://www.nextbook.org/cultural/blogitem.html?id=5085

    A gem: Worried that the candidate’s name “sounds Muslim”? “It’s a super fucking shitty name,” Silverman allows. “But you’d think that somebody named Manischewitz Guberman might understand that.”

    Regarding 9/11 as an inside job:

    I go back & forth, because this isn’t just the Bush adminstration. It’s also the Dark Lord Cheney administration, and that guy is capable of some impressive shit. When I build up the cojones, I intend to read “Angler,” the new book by the Washington Post’s Barton Gellman, on just how evil the man is, and the sorts of things he HAS gotten away with. Judging from interviews I’ve heard with the author, these feats are numerous.

    What I DON’T believe is that 9/11 was orchestrated by the U.S. government. As you point out, there would need to be far too many people involved, and you couldn’t keep the lid on tight enough now that GWB’s at 24% approval.

    What I DO suspect is that Cheney heard about something in the works, and decided not to do anything about it. This is criminal negligence at least, and accomplice to mass murder in my book. Cheney was a member of the Project for the New American Century, who in 1997 circulated their plan for occupying Iraq, and conceded that it would be difficult to convince any sitting administration to proceed with it barring “a new Pearl Harbor.” If Cheney got wind of a new Pearl Harbor warming up, it was in his interest to let it happen. Of course we’ll never know, because GWB has changed the laws to make sure executive documents can remain classified FOREVER.

    It’s entirely possible, of course, that none of these scenarios happened and that everyone in the Bush/Cheney administration was completely blindsided. They certainly acted like it. I believe 100% that George himself had no fucking idea what was going on. Watch the 7 minutes of him sitting in the classroom after being told the news (the footage can be found in “Fahrenheit 9/11”). The guy was shellshocked. And frozen in his own incompetence.

    In any of these cases, this administration has got to go, and on January 20, 2009, go they will. I just hope they aren’t going to get to hand over the keys to Johnny McNuke-em-all, whose staff has been thoroughly infested with Cheney proteges like Steve Schmidt.

    Go-fucking-bama:

    http://www.barackobama.com/

    Comment by matthew — September 27, 2008 @ 7:05 pm | Reply

  2. I definitely think 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the Bush administration and i am prepared to concede the possibility that they heard something was in the works and let it happen because they unQUESTIONABLY were looking for a reason to go into Iraq. That Iraq was pre-planned from before bush even got into office is beyond scrutiny.

    Maybe i should read that cheney book. Fuckmunch. I just get so damn…. uppity and upset.

    Comment by bunitingi — September 27, 2008 @ 9:30 pm | Reply

  3. I feel sorry for people who don’t drink. When they wake up in the morning, that’s as good as they’re going to feel all day.FrankSinatraFrank Sinatra

    Comment by Iraq War — September 27, 2008 @ 9:45 pm | Reply

  4. I’m kinda scared to read it. My health has only recently gotten back up to snuff, and I don’t want to give myself a coronary.

    Comment by matthew — September 27, 2008 @ 11:27 pm | Reply

  5. This is why i blog about Wassup Holmes.

    Comment by bunitingi — September 28, 2008 @ 12:10 am | Reply

  6. Oooh Blavatsky. I first read about her and the rest of those spiritualist types in a OMG ANTICHRIST christian book many years ago..something Rainbow. Rainbow Conspiracy? Possibly. New Agers gonna Lucifer us up with their crystals. Or something.

    I always thought she had a cool name. Being a spiritualist was one of the few career opportunities for single ladies in the 19th century. Could make a good living doing tours and holding seances and such.

    Comment by emjaybee — September 30, 2008 @ 8:56 pm | Reply


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